Dear Friends,

Last week, my religion class got onto the topic of communicating with the dead and a number of students said they have used and still have "ouija boards."

A mother of one of the students told me that she has been having "funny things" happening around the house since using a ouija board - I told her to get rid of it, pronto, and get her house blessed.

The students who have the ouija boards appear quite defensive about them.

They said that if they are so bad, why are even toy stores selling them?

I continued to press the issue in my nice way ( ).

What would you say to people who use ouija boards?

Alex

Read what happened to King Saul.

Dan L

It might depend on the individuals involved. To many, those boards could be little more than a silly parlor game. I remember trying one with some friends years ago, and found I could easily manipulate the board into saying what I wanted it to say. Perhaps with susceptible persons, it could open an avenue for demonic influence, but I haven't seen any proof for that widely-quoted belief. To me, the whole thing is silly.

Those things seriously creep me out. I've got into very long, passionate discussions with my fiancee regarding such things. While she admits that they are dangerous things to play with, she still has a hard time letting go of the one she had simply because it's "part of her heritage", much like her fortune telling cards. Apparently, the very superstitious Italian side of her family has all sorts of "quaint" little things that I see as directly incompatible with a Christian lifestyle. She feels that it's part of an Italian folk heritage and that I, as a fourth generation American with few ethnic customs, just cannot understand. And I can't. It's one thing to religiously inscribe the initials of the Three Wise Men on the door beam every year, as per Polish (and others) custom, but quite another to play with tarot cards to see what the future holds. I trumpet Dan's suggestion to read about what happened to King Saul.

It's been made quite clear that the ouija board does not cross the threshold of our future home and that I would really prefer not to see her using my poker cards to divine the future. She claims that she really just uses them to help her through the present as a thinking tool, so to speak, but it all still makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

I've added a special petition in my daily prayers that God grant Christians the world over the ability to free themselves from the fetters of spiritually detrimental supersition simply because it's part of one's "heritage". There are just certain things that we can't "Christianize" and those are best left in the dark to begin with, so to speak.

Sorry to disagree with Charles, but I adamantly think that they are tools of the occult, and as such have NO place in the home!

Someone bought me one when I was a teen. My mother and I played it and the stupid thing actually moved, and my mother turned white and so did I, for neither of us was manipulating it.

The enlightenment of our Lord told me to get the demonic thing OUT OF THE HOUSE! I have preached against them to my own children and to my Sunday School students ever since.

Objects through which the demons can enter our life and homes, (websites on witchcraft, vampirism, etc, tarot cards, demonic shows and movies, fortune tellers) are NEVER innocent (I know of one young teen that had something overcome her and almost jumped on a train track after having gone to vampire websites to 'research' for a report she chose to write) and should be avoided at all costs...

The most susceptible to these are not sensitive types, but those who are spiritually sensitive...the demons tend to attack those who are close to God.

I don't know about the Catholic church, but my church doesn't emphasize this enough(other than the monastics, who DO, and it is even on the list of contemplations for giving confession) ,...on this matter, our Evangelical friends are right on target!

In Christ our Lord,
Alice

P.S. I hope that our priests on board will think about this and concentrate or have their catechists and youth workers concentrate on this more...all sorts of occult practices and television shows are very popular these days...apparently the newest form of entertainment at children's birthday parties in my neck of the woods is tarot card readings.

P.P.S. Mikey: I couldn't agree with you more. If your wife's family is from southern Italy, I can sympathize. It seems that some Greeks and southern Italians blend Christian practice with occult practices. In Southern Italy and Greece, (as well as the Middle East) even TODAY, witches who tie knots and wreak havoc on people's lives abound, and marginal Christians who have no clue about real Christianity and malice in their hearts visit them. Mt. Athos elders acknowledge that this phenomenon exists. In all fairness, however, I have met many devout Christians in Greece who would never dream of entertaining the occult. There is no place for these kind of things in anyone's cultural tradition if they are baptized Christians!

Alice, a friend once asked what I think of the occult. My reply was, "I don't think about it at all." It isn't a part of my life and has no influence on me. I wouldn't say that the occult is innocent, because it is not. Anything that can lead one away from Christ is far from innocent. The occult just should not be a part of the life of a Christian. So I look at ouija boards, tarot cards, and the like as nonsense that has no place in the life of a God-centered person. Christ is more than sufficient for every need, and nothing else can or should take his place.

Evil.

Alex, I think the main counter-arguments, other than that as given above, will need to be aimed at the "It isn't spirits, but the freedom of one's mind" argument.

I think that one thing that may be mentioned is the story of the rich man and Lazarus...if you recall, the rich man desperately wanted to give his brothers the Truth, and was told no. If the lesson of his life, given to save his brothers, was not allowed to be communicated because they had the law and the prophets to guide them. If they were not going to heed the Truth given them there, a mere spirit would not be able to convince them to change their ways. So, I ask...would God then allow a spirit to answer such "questions" as are normally put to these "toys"? Can we conceive that a spirit could be permitted by God to bridge the gap between life and death to be summoned by the manipulation of a mass-produced "toy" to answer who someone's prom date will be? The idea is preposterous.

If not spirits of those we love, then we are left with two choices: Suggestion, and demons.

If the board only tells us what WE want to hear (Suggestion), then what it does is to put before us an idea generated by our own minds that will blind us to God's Will, eclipsing it with our own desire. If we BELIEVE what the Board tells us, and act accordingly, then we have robbed ourselves of the right to act freely, as we would have done without this "knowledge". For instance, a teenage girl told by the board that a particular boy will ask her to the prom may turn down another boy she would have been very happy to accept, had she not had it in her mind that another WOULD ask.

The last case, demonic manipulation, if considered as a viable source for making the widget move, is reason enough to run away from the things. Opening one's mind and heart and thoughts to considering the words of demons is most unwise, to put it mildly. And once that communications channel is open, more evil can result. (possession, etc). It seems likely that the idea of being able to manipulate the minds of impressionable youth by making them think 'it's only a toy' would appeal to the Father of Lies.

If God wants us to know things, we must listen to Him with all our prayerful might, in order to discern His Will. We do NOT turn to "toys" in order to MANIPULATE foreknowledge from Heaven. It cannot happen...therefore, what we get comes from another source...and at best is not to be relied upon, and at worst is diabolic.

Gaudior, who takes an exceedingly dim view of these things

Dear Charles,

Forgive me if I misunderstood you.

I have had the misfortune of TOO many different experiences with the occult being alive and well in people's lives, both young, old, here and abroad, and that is why I get so worked up about it. Although it has no place in a Christian's life, it innocently and not so innocently weaves its way into lives.

I remember driving into southern Italy with my tour guide, a British lady who had lived in Italy for many years and spoke Italian fluently...she said that witchcraft is commonly practiced in the area!

Can you imagine the hatred in a person's heart to want to go to a witch to destroy another person's life? Can you imagine what will happen to their soul if they do not repent before they die? Yet, this has been going on in the so called Christian countries of Greece and southern Italy for centuries! There is even an ancient Orthodox prayer from the early church which is still used, and which asks God for the delivery of a suffering person from having been the object of this extreme form of jealousy and/or malice.

The Master of lies is now bringing his practices into the mainstream..as I said, can you imagine 'tarot card' readings at the birthday parties of children under 12?!?

There is even a book out for teenage girls in this country which teaches them the 'arts' of witchcraft to get what they wish to attain, such as a boyfriend, or to hurt those who they wish to hurt!

My daughter suffered a bout of sudden onset and deep depression/oppression last year. The holy prayers of monastics, priests, friends, family and even posters on this board delivered her. In confession to my spiritual father, and elder from Mt. Athos, she mentioned a former schoolmate and friend who she had just had contact with and who seemed to obsess her. The monastic elder told her to remove ANY signs of this girl from her home and life. My daughter got well. Although we had the suspicion, we still had not made any direct correlation.

This year, my daughter foolishly contacted her once again and shared her life with her...and she had a very brief yet immediate episode of depression/oppression once again.

I finally found out that this girl, a product of a mixed marriage of Hindu/Catholic, yet had no real religion of her own, had often boasted about practicing witchcraft to my daughter. (ofcourse like most teens, my daughter did not confide this to me until much later) She also had a malicious and jealous heart.

We finally got to the bottom of these attacks-- The holy Monastic elder's advice was right in having her rid our house and her life of any contact with her or momentos of her: it was due to this evil girl that my daughter was suffering.

Glory to God that my daughter was delivered!

How many others will suffer because of the occult, directly or indirectly, and never know it?

Fondly,
In Christ our LORD,
Alice

P.S. As I am a private person, it was difficult to share this, but if it can help anyone here, I will have done a good thing for the glory of God and the safety of HIS children!

Charles, there are many things in this life that are nonsense, and have no place in the life of a Christian. Then there are those items which are nonsense, have no place in the life of a Christian, and yet can actually HARM those who use them. For instance, a child who reads Mad Magazine KNOWS it is nonsense, and is not likely to act on any suggestions put forth by it. I wish I could say the same for those who get their fortunes read, believe implicitly in their horoscope, genuinely believe in spirit guides, etc. Sadly, even the well educated in responsible positions hold these beliefs...and believing them to be other than nonsense, are swayed by them...this is where they cross the line, in my mind, from nonsense that has no place in the life of a Christian, to DANGER.

Gaudior, who thinks things that are dangerous should be labeled DANGER, not nonsense.

Gaudior, I agree that those things would be dangerous to someone who takes them seriously and orders his life around them. For me, they all fall into the category of the old magic 8-balls that were around when I was a kid. You shake them, turn them upside down, and an answer from the limited set of answers appears. The answers have no application to anything real and are unreliable. I would hope no one would take something like that seriously. For what it's worth, I have no occult materials of any kind, nor do I plan on acquiring any.

Charles,

Would that others were as sensible as you are! I have heard conversations in churches concerning how true a fortune teller's predictions were..in educated households (the wife of a friend is an example) people believe that they will die at a certain age because a palm reader told them so...government officials believe in spirit guides who speak to them...

Sadly, propogating such dangerous nonsense merely allows one's sensibilities to be blinded to that danger: namely, that people BELIEVE IT. Sort of in the same way we are hardened to the violence on TV after so many hours viewing...that which would shock us no longer does, thus the harm is done. The more mainstream such silliness gets, the more harm is done...more gullible people are reached, and convinced that something isn't THAT BAD.

Gaudior, who would like to hear the thoughts of some of the teens on the subject....

Dear Gaudior,

I agree with you.

The reason I brought in witchcraft is because it all ties together...the desire to manipulate one's life or act upon one's life according to these crafts, rather than trusting in God, prayer and His Divine Providence and will for each and every life.

"Salvum fac populum tuum, Domine, et benedic hereditati tuae."
"Soson Kirie ton lao sou, kai evloyison tin klironomian sou"
"Save o God thy people, and bless thine inheritance"....

Somehow this came to mind. It is a frightening world out there for those who do not know fully or who take lightly (like the woman you mentioned) the basic principles of our Orthodox and Catholic faiths.

Fondly,
In Christ,
Alice

Hmmm... I would rather pray for the dead than communicate with them.

I am not in favor of such toys.

I don't think these toys "do" anything in and of themselves, but sitting around trying to raise some dead rapper for idle chit chat is NOT a good use of a kid's time.

I seem to recall - and I'm sorry I forgot where -that there was a charge in the Hebrew Scriptures that you shall "have no mediums among you." Does anyone recall where that is? Well, these toys really amount to playing medium, don't they? What good purpose is there in that??

Ouija boards, table tapping, and any other form of spiritualism, mediumism, occultism, witchcraft, demonology and so on (and yes I do mean to stay away from Harry Potter) have no place in the Christian life. They are dangerous, whether we "believe" in them or not - even as one may not necessarily "believe" that a given mushroom is poisonous but it does not thereby become benign. STAY AWAY FROM THE STUFF! (this does not refer to mushrooms, which are delicious). If you have had ANY involvement with such things, REPENT and confess it, at once. If, God forbid, there are any such things in your house, take them outside your house and burn them.

This is in no sense whatever a joke; allowing the devil an entrance door into your life is not funny, and the consequences will not be amusing.

We are specifically enjoyed, both in Scripture and in Holy Tradition, to have nothing to do with such things, and not to inquire into such matters at all. The only thing we need to know about Hell is how to avoid it; we need to know that Satan is the Enemy of mankind, is a liar and the father of lies, and is actually pleased if we don't believe that he exists. Place your trust in God and avoid everything that smacks, however remotely, of the Adversary.

Once you do that, decisively, you should pay the matter no further attention.

Incognitus

Unfortunately, things such as oujia boards, tarot cards, dungeons and dragons and the like are becoming increasingly popular in the past decade or so. Many purchase them as entertainment thinking them harmless. The real probelms is that many young people especially take them seriously and follow them and their directives. Many a tragedy are documented by this, including suicide, and the victim is generally a devotee of these games. They are dangerous. Remember the evil one comes not only in the form of horns and a tail, but sometimes as an innocent game. The occult is very real with that and other forms including Satanism on the rise. But many do not want to look at the spiritual harm it may cause. To many it is just a game, and to others is it?

Stay away from this stuff, and focus our energies in a more positive way, and God willing all will become stronger in our Lord, and not farther away as these games seem to draw them.

Forgive me,
Father Anthony+

Thank you for speaking up, Father Anthony and Incongnitus. As you can see from my posts, I couldn't agree with you more.

Alex--stand your ground with the kids!

In Christ,
Alice

P.S. Incognitus--regarding those mushrooms...I get this feeling that you are a gourmet when it comes to food!

I think we are all pretty much in agreement on the occult. But I have seen televangelists have what they call "words of knowledge" which reveal to them things about people that they couldn't possibly know. Now where is that stuff coming from? I remember mentioning to a friend that God might answer my prayers if He were not so busy telling trivia to Pat Robertson.

There won't be ouija boards in my home. Never have been never will. I must admit, I have tried them a time or two when younger, but nothing big. I don't believe in astrology, palm readings, tarrot cards and ouija boards.
I was watching American Idol the past two nights and every contestant had to explain how they fit their "sign." I would have declined even trying to make something up about that if I were on that show. I don't believe in it.
People actually believe that stuff, but ignore the real deal, Jesus Christ and Mary and the Saints.

I knew a girl who used to play with one.

I thought it was the subconsious mind manifesting itself.

Nothing that she "predicted" has any bearing in reality

"Every evil screams only one message: 'I am good.'"

- From Father Alexander Schmemann


In His peace,
+Fr. Gregory

Dear Friends,

Has anyone seen the series, "Most Haunted?" It is a British series where a group goes into a "haunted" house or castle and stays the night.

They had one episode that was most disturbing . . . the "spirit" attacked one of the camera-men, apparently striking him with full force in the chest and stomach. As he fell, screaming, he was, as he said, kicked continually.

A psychologist and parapsychologist, who usually debunks what they see and record, was so amazed by the incident that he said he didn't know, off-hand, how to explain it, as he was right there when it happened.

This does indicate, and to this misguided crew especially, that the "spirits" are not all "good."

We have another such show in Toronto, the "Girly Ghostbusters" and they likewise are off the deep end.

When we moved into our new home, we had loud knocking at night.

I did not try to "communicate" with whatever, but took some holy water and anointed all the rooms - then later a priest blessed our home.

Alex

My father had heard a scary ghost story as a kid and was doing the little kid stay up all night with the lights on routine. He related this to his grandfather (who was Irish), and whose advice on being afraid of ghosts, as he related it, was as follows: "Now, Johnny, don't ye be worrying about the dead ones. It's the living ones you've got to watch out for."

I don't discount that there might be ghosts and the like, nor did my dad. Evidence of evil influence, evil choices, evil acts, evil incarnate, and evil spirits abound.

The problem with pseudo-occult games comes in when people trust in them. One of the Fathers who posted above is correct that some children and teenagers are particularly vulnerable. What is a creative outlet or fun to one kid, may be a fantasy window into real evil for another, especially the kid who is in some way maladjusted, unpopular, geeky and/or vulnerable and who retreats into such fantasy.

Retreating into fantasy is attractive to people for whom reality isn't cutting it and sometimes that fantasy leads them down very bad paths. We recently had a murder case in this area - I guess it was a couple years ago now - where a couple kids who pursued such interests decided to kill one of girl's fathers in most grisly fashion. They hacked him up with a sword. They certainly seemed to have totally retreated into an evil world of fantasy-come-reality. Although the "Devil made me do it" is not a legal defense, one has to wonder at times...

Honestly, parents need to encourage their kids into more wholesome pursuits. If you see a kid paying attention to "other" worldy things, maybe it's time to see what's lacking in this world for them and work on that, together.

Btw, I never watch those reality shows. Ugh.

But I did live in a dormitory ("staircase") at Oxford that was allegedly haunted. Our chapel was allegedly haunted, too, by a monk of all odd visitors. The monk allegedly was seen praying at the altar rail several times in history, according to our historian - okay, maybe a sighting every 50 years, I think the last one had been during WW2. I never saw anything, nor did it affect my ability to sleep like a rock, cozy in my bed. However, not all was well across town - my friend lived at a neighboring college where the room across the hall from him had to be visited by a Catholic priest. I don't know what happened over there, but my friend is a level guy and he said the two fellows living there were sane fellows who were totally sleep-deprived and scared before the priest came over.

Well, I had a "word of knowledge" that said, "eat more dark chocolate for Lent." Of course, I always follow good spiritual advice, and dark chocolate is an other-worldly experience.

Dear Charles,

I agree that dark chocolate can be a positively "wicked" experience!

The darker, the better . . .

Alex

All the more reason to become Byzantine - you guys have a fully developed understanding of chocolate.

I gave up chocolate for Lent you guys and gal!

Just kidding. Actually I can't eat it anymore at all cause of a blood sugar problem, but I did love it. Only milk chocolate, however. :p

Mary Jo...whose mouth is watering.

Well, it's like this...I am vegetarian, so giving up meat is meaningless to me. So I am having dark chocolate - the antioxidants are good for me, etc. Is my logic making any sense? I love dark chocolate. On the meat issue, I do have to find alternative penances since the mandated ones have no significance.

RE: ouija boards.

I would caution any one who plays with them and encourage them to stop. They seem harmless like some of the games sold in video stores, but can be a beginning of opening the door to the occult. Once that happens it can easily lead to a deeper curiosity with the occult and desire to seek further. I would interest them in something else.

I agree with Fr. Gregory that evil can say, "I am good." and even look and feel good--especially at first. The game definitely has drawing power and some kind of spirit can be behind it. That doesn't make it good as not all spirits are good.

We have to pray for wisdom though in what we say and how we say it, cause making it sound like forbidden fruit can give it even more appeal to some.

In His Name,

Mary Jo

I don't know! Sometimes these things can be ghosts, and sometimes 'other' things. What bothers me, is that they say that ghosts are people that died in a state of anxiety, and continue to be in that state.

Now I know the Orthodox, in Greece at least, have a priest bless the spot where someone has died a tragic death. My mother once told me a story about a boy that fell from a great height. The people could hear his screams until the place was blessed. Of course I could go into the many times I heard talking or eery things in my mothers island, usually at midnight, (they had sufferred a massacre), but I'd be going on forever.

A grand-aunt of mine, that was known to be quite devout, lived in a house where the commotion at night was unbearable. She heard rocks being thrown on the roof, and whispers through the key hole that 'they'll take her'. In the morning there was not a scar to be found on the house. (Very similar to the experiences of the Cure of Ars.)

This grand-aunt kept begging my grandmother to stay with her at night, but as fearless as my grandmother was, she only suffered one night of it.

Zenovia

The rock throwing eventually stopped, but oddly enough started again during WWII. I guess it was an evil era when the 'devils' reigned.

Zenovia

Member # 1348

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I think we are all pretty much in agreement on the occult. But I have seen televangelists have what they call "words of knowledge" which reveal to them things about people that they couldn't possibly know. Now where is that stuff coming from? I remember mentioning to a friend that God might answer my prayers if He were not so busy telling trivia to Pat Robertson.
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Dear ByzanTN,

Actually, Pat Robertson is not a televangelist. He does not get paid for what he does, but rather the other way around...he gives his money to the program and to his charities. He was the founder of the Family Channel many years ago, and so he is a very wealthy man.

He is the son of a Senator, is an investment broker that graduated from Yale, and also has a doctorate in theology, as well as an author of many, many books. He was also the founder of the graduate law school Regent University, the ACLJ, Operation Blessing that provides food to the poor, the founder of the Christian Coalition, etc., etc., etc.

When he decided to turn to God, he lived in the black area of Bedford Styvinson in Brooklyn, with the cockroaches and his wife and children. Frankly, I adore him, and I'm a little tired of people that dislike him and denigrate him because he refuses to accept that homosexuality is not sinful.

He has always tried to edify others in everything he says, and not once in all the years that I have watched his show, have I ever heard him say anything that would denigrate or diminish other Christian faiths. Besides, I can hear the news that can't be heard on our 'liberal' media.

As for the 'Word of Knowledge', it is when he and a few 'pure' souls (doesn't work for everyone), start praying, and begin to mention that a certain person has an ailment that will be cured.

You have to realize, no-one has a monopoly on how our Lord should perform 'His' miracles. If He wants to have us come closer to Him, by going to Lourdes, etc., or by having Pat Robertson giving his Words of Knowledge, then so be it. The fruits are the same.

Zenovia

Of course, I was kidding about the word of knowledge, since it fit in the few threads preceding mine. But we will have to agree to disagree somewhat about Robertson. He does hold conservative positions on issues, and believe it or not, sometimes I even agree with him. His finances are so entwined with his church operations, I am a bit leery. I do remember him getting some flack from the IRS for using an Operation Blessing plane to do some work on some diamond mines in Africa in which he had an interest. He has many publications to his credit, but one of his former employees testified he was the ghost writer on one of Robertson's books, and even had difficulty getting Robertson to read his "own" book. So I have mixed feelings about him.

Dear Byztn,

Don't believe those that try to discredit him. They have been trying so hard for the past twenty five years, that had he been anyone else, they would have had volumes on him.

Strangely enough, whenever they start full force, it ends up backfiring on them.

It's a pity he's so humble, I would just love to know exactly how much he gives to various charities. I remember him once saying he had farms in Africa to feed the people.

As for his investments, he is good. One day he said that he gave a tip to his $10,000 a month donors, and they made a fortune.

Zenovia

For those of us that have Belgian ancestry, dark chocolate is a must to the point of being a sacramental. Besides being good for you, it brings my mind to what the perfect snack in heaven can be like. Now if you had said eat more milk chocolate then that would have been satanic

Father Anthony+

Belgian chocolate IS a sacramental! If God made anything better, he kept it for himself.

For the record, a televangelist is merely a television-evangelist. Or, more simply put: a TV preacher.

The label easily fits Pat Robertson.

--tim

Dear Annie,

There is a tradition among Orthodox monastics to never receive anyone into their cell unless they first recite the Jesus Prayer out loud once!

I remember reading about a fellow who visited a Russian hesychast in his forest cottage. The hesychast said he had to leave for a while, but reminded him to let no one into the cottage/hermitage unless they could recite the Jesus Prayer . . .

During the monk's absence, someone did indeed come to the door and demanded to be let in. The pilgrim-visitor calmly asked him to recite the Jesus Prayer . . .

But whoever it was outside refused and continue to knock loudly and violently on the door.

"Say a Prayer!" the pilgrim shouted to him. And this was greeted by ridicule and laughter . . .

The hesychast finally returned and found his visitor huddled in a corner of the hermitage, shaken and trembling.

My own view about these reality shows is that they have no idea what they are playing with.

Alex

Dear all:

I just watched this movie "White Noise" and had the impression that this kind of movies (and websites promoting same) are kind of becoming an "alternative" for the ouija boards, showing themselves as a "scientific" evidence of the existance of the afterlife. I'm really impressed about the effect such a movie has in people; more than a couple of persons after the movie were talking about buying some tape recorders and probably a new VCR and start looking for some EVP's by themselves

I believe that it would be more than necessary to mention these kind of phenomena when talking about the occult, to be clear that we, as Christians, should not try to contact the dead in any way whatsoever, but to pray for them.

I'm sure that if a spirit is in Heaven, it won't be willing to "communicate" with this realm, but demons certainly are, and as Father Gregory quoted "Every evil screams only one message: 'I am good.'"

God help us who are weak in our faith and have had any approach to the occult at any time of our lives.

God Bless you all.

The biggest lie Satan has going for him is convincing the world he doesn't exist and is made up only by the Christian Church. I used a Ouija Board 26 years ago and I had nothing but bad experiences from that one seemingly "innocent" board. I couldn't figure out why so many bad things were happening? Then by choice I burned the board and glad I did. I have a friend, she is a Wiccan and I casually brought up the Ouija Board and she refuses to discuss it only to say it is a gateway for the lowest forms of demons. I was surprised by her answer and the fact she was trembling. My son wanted to get one, I said, "No!" and he understood there would be no negotiation when it comes to Tarot cards and a Ouija Board. I suggest Leaflet Missal Catalog, they have an excellent book, "An Exorcist Tells His Stories" and a follow up to that book! I recommend both to those who believe the Pentagram, Baphomet and Satan is "nonsense" evil is real and we should not take it lightly!

Beautifully said Seraphim! And ALL too true!

Your brother in the Lord,
+Fr. Gregory

Not meaning to make this thread on ouija boards a source of a dark glamour, let me say a couple of things on this subject. First of all, this occult stuff works. I know.But by the Grace of God, it wasn't the hard way. When I was a student at UT Chattanooga, my then fiancee and I were part of the core group that revived the Newman Center on campus. I had the keys to the place, and after work (I worked my way through school) I would go over to the center either to do some chores there, or else practice my trumpet, as I was in marching and concert bands. one evening, I found in the office the "Satanic Bible" read through that, the usual rantings about Christianity, but then I found a part that a prof I knew (and who is a published scholar with a Doctorate from the Sorbonne, plus he is an Orthodox Jew who came to Christ and is quite an orthodox Catholic) left for the priest. there was a note that said that no one should go past this part with out consulting with his/her spiritual advisor.Forbidden fruit syndrome being what it is, off came the paper clip and away I read. came across a prayer to one demon whose name I will not write (no it wasn't Voldemort), and for a goof, I read it out loud. I then noticed a growing darkness in the corner,but then I noticed that the darkness was pushed back. I said "oh [unprintable]", and got out. when I got home that night, I kept glancing over my shoulder while practicing my Classical guitar. For many years I have worn a medal of Michael Archangel along with a medal of Blessed Mary Theotokos, who I felt had intervened in a less than Hollywood, but even more real way. I had also, in my youth been involved with a political group that had on its book list, a large number of occult books, and whose leader was an ordained "priest" of the LaVey group, and I even got to witness a ceremony of initiation of a few fellow party members. One had later reneged on his oath, and when I saw him some time after,he was gone.To this day, I still see his eyes. I have worked with people with mental illness as a volunteer with the Mental Health Association, but his eyes were not those of someone with mental illness.He had promised that if he had reneged on his oath, that he would let his mind be taken over by Set, the Egyptian
"god" of darkness, I am a witness to his words. guess what, it happened. when it comes to ouija boards, I am not in the least bit surprised that Wiccans want nothing to do with them. May I add that Hindus warn against them as well. for the New Ager, there are tramp spirits wandering about and when someone is using a ouija board, then that person is providing a convenient stopping place for that spirit. When New Agers, Wiccans, Hindus, and real Christians (not the Liberal type, but the ones who believe in the inerrancy of the written Word of God the Bible,as well as the Godman Jesus Who was, is and will be Infallible as He is God in the flesh)concur on the dangers of the ouija board, as disparate in their theological views as they are, doesn't that tell you something? Even the Latins are wising up as they restore the ministry of exorcists. Satan is real, he is a real person, he is divine(Jesus is not divine, He is God), and he has power, and he means you woe.
Much Love,
Jonn

The power of our Eucharistic Lord and his protection over all who will read or have read this discussion.

Thank you for the prayers, Pani Rose! I was starting to get chills just reading this.

The Latins never got rid of exorcists, they just hide them. Each diocese is supposed to have an exorcist whom only the bishop knows about. Usually it's a monk. In my old cradle diocese, I found out in seminary about this, and where the monk lived, but never who it was, but I know I've met him, because I met them all. I think with the popularity of the occult, the Church needs to protect its exorcists in every way possible.

We all know what the Latin rite of exorcism looks like, even if it's a played-up hollywood version. Is there anything similar in the Eastern Churches? Or is it just prayers and blessing, not a liturgy of sorts?

I agree that Satan is real and so is evil. However, Christ does not want us to live in fear. To be forewarned is to be forearmed, and a healthy respect for evil is wise. But not fear. We have no reason to fear, since Christ is stronger than anything we could ever fear.

Hey Alex,

What would I say to someone who uses an ouija board? I'd tell them to get it OUT of their house immediately, throw some holy water on it, and barbeque the accursed thing. Then, go to confession, and then get their house blessed (or excorcized in need be).

I'd also remind the person that ouija boards are not toys, and that they are the most common cause of demonic harrassment and possession ( The Excorcist was based on a true story, and the kid had been playing with an ouija board!).

Occult demons are the most powerful and the hardest to get rid of.

Believe me, they are NOT "toys", they are doorways to the demonic. Unfortunately, they are marketed as harmless "games."

I would like to add the following, The Devil is always looking for an invitation in to our homes and lives, He is like the relatives that come for a visit, but never seem in a hurry to leave. When finally they do leave everything is upside down, a mess, or destroyed, and our relationships are strained, and ill feelings dwell with us for time come.

Oujia boards, tarot cards, dungeons and dragons, "Magic" cards, and the like seem to the unaware entertainment. They actually catch the players in an obsession that draws them into the occult without them being aware. Their lives and personalities change to one of obsession, which is hard to break. This is Satan taking a hold of them. All through the guise of "innocent" fun. Remember these games are only one way, that opens the door of darkness. Another door is the current media of television. All one has to do is to look at most programs with a critical eye. Greed, lust, lies, defaming that which is holy, the list goes on.

We have become desenstized by the media, and by the new age messages that are bombarding us daily. Several years ago, I really took notice of this, and had cable service disconnected (in my area without cable you have no television). The cable company was beside themselves. Someone rejecting TV. They tried every incentive to get me to reconnect for two years.

I find that by removing some of these distractions, games, TV, etc., my spiritual life has increased dramatically. I have read and learned more in the time since than I had ever my entire time in seminary. My work developing programs for the archdiocese pulls from me creativity free from the deadening of these distractions. Prayers and study have become that were there are now a serious part of my life.

We have heard and know of the influences of the devil by these posts. It is time too examine through our fellowship, how to subtly pass the word along without seeming to be bizzare or fanatical. We know the dangers, but by screaming about it will only lead people to try it.

One suggestion is prayer before encountering the distraction. you may find that those who were intersted in the game or whatever, will become fustrated with it, quickly lose interest in it, or see it for what it truly is, an enticement to enter the world of the occult, trying to close the door that leads to Christ, His saints, and heaven.

I have said my piece, and I hope it helps.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Reverend Father Anthony,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

You're so right, the media glorifies the occult. There was even a comedy about Satan, in the form of a woman (Elizabeth Hurley) trying to tempt Brendan Frazier's character.. it was called "Bedazzled." I caught the last part of it on tv, and I was appalled. The message was pretty much, "Satan's not such a bad guy (or girl)."

I love horror movies, especially those dealing with the demonic, but lately I've decided I shouldn't watch them. Why in the world should I want to be entertained by the devil?

God bless,

Karen

Yes that movie was based on a true story. The last of the Priests who participated in the exorcism, which took place in St. Louis in 1949, recently passed away.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18767-2005Mar8.html

May the Lord welcome Father Walter into His Eternal Kingdom.

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

This topic was brought up after walking at our local mall this morning. One of my friends related that their family went to a Renniassance Fair last summer and of course there was the resident Psychic and they were at another booth and the son overheard the Psychic ask her "helper" if he needed anymore pamphlets on astrology? Then the son overheard the Psychic say: "Well, if I am a psychic you don't need to answer that! But do you need pamphlets?" I'm not making the occult a joke, I was involved in it during the early 80's and it nearly destroyed me. We have to remember also that St. Seraphim when once asked what the demons look like, his reply was: "Hedious!" A demon can appear as an angel of light, I read in one of my books that a monk was visited by an "angel" the monk being wise asked the "angel" to pray with him, the monk face East and after his prayer, he turned around to find the "angel" had disappeared and realized the "angel" was "demonic." Satan is the Father of lies and there is no truth in him as our Lord said.

Hey John,

Thanks for the info!

Maybe I'm jsut weird, but whenever I saw the title of the movie "Bedazzled" I always thought "Beelzebub." The two words do share some of the same letters and have the same number of syllables.

Anywho, God bless and many happy years to those whose pasts have seen the evil of the occult.

Christos Voskres!

Appropos nothing really relevant to this thread:

Jonn's post reminds me of something that I just read recently (don't ask how I come by this stuff, it just falls onto my screen :rolleyes: . Anton Szandor LaVey, nee Howard Stanton Levey, author of "The Satanic Bible" had at least one Ukrainian grandparent - Cecile Luba Primokov-Coulton ("Coulton" Anglicized from "Koltonoff").

Father Anthony,

My mother's family came from Lowell, MA, where I now live and in which there was a small, but distinct, Belgian community early in the 20th century. Among them were the Snooks family, neighbors and friends to my grandparents, who operated "The Belgian Candy Store", at which most of my aunts worked at one time or another.

Among the treasured slips of paper that my Aunt Kay, of blessed memory, squirrelled away was the family's secret recipe for Belgian Creams, given to her by Mrs. Snooks in her later years. These were purportedly the ultimate taste treat in a store full of same. I myself have hidden this so well as to be uncertain where it is; if I find it, I'll post it for your delight.

Many years,

Neil

ThanK you Neil, I would certainly love to see it. It is truly my one weak point.

Father Anthony+

Alice,
we are definitely in accord on this one.
My mother was involved in the occult and it ruined her life.
Its definitely a no no and actually a sin against the first commandment. Certainly nothing to play with.
Stephanos I
Ab omnium malum libera nos Domine!

I agree and so often a form of the occult, i.e. astrology--- is easily bought into. Also, in my opinion, it is something which appears good and has strong drawing power, but can lead away from God and ultimately into deception.

Porter.

A good friend of mine started levitating while using a ouija board with a few friends. She became so petrified that she cried out "JESUS!" and she was placed back on the ground.

It was said before by more important people than me; ouiji boards are an invitation to demons.

Your impoverished servant,
Usque.

P.S. Saint Pius X PRAY FOR US!!!

I gave a talk on Angels and Demons for the CCD teachers in my Latin Parish. I first asked them to raise their hand if they believed in Angels (98% raised their hands) and then I asked them to keep them raised if they believed in Demons. Half of the hands dropped. My next question was, So you believe in beings who are invisible who aligned with good, yet many of you don't believe in the same thing if they are aligned with evil? That got them thinking.

After college I started dealing in the occult working in Ceremonial Magick and neo-paganism. There are things today that I still can't explain logically and I don't even try.

Using Ouija boards may be thought of as a toy or game, but the fact is, that if you read the letter of Peter, the Devil is a lion that is seeking to devour you. This is a dire warning to all Christians to, not be afraid, but be on guard of their souls.

One of the Devil's tricks is to make us believe that he doesn't exist. His next trick is to make us think of red guys in tights and a pitchfork so that our mind instantly says "Good Lord, I can't believe in something silly like that."

John Gibson