www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Sept 25: A Roman Catholic Mass for a Russian Orthodox Saint

to those who have stated that there was no statement between the Pope and Patriarch of the fullness being present in both Orthodoxy and Catholicism: true as that may be, I did say "beginning", and that says that things had hitherto come pretty far after the mutual anathemas and excommunications of yore. I guess it's all about semantics. what I also find here is that the recognition of the Fullness of the Faith is coming from the grassroots, everyday people like you and I seeing past the painful events of history and recognizing each other for what we are: Christians, rooted in History,Apostolic Sucession and orthodoxy (small "o").I still recall with a warm heart a year or so ago when I wished that I could receive the Mysteries in the OCA parish in Chattanooga, as we all know no Russian Catholic parish exists anywheres near here. I still remember one good OCA dude saying that "why not" as far as my being able to receive the Mysteries in one of his parishes. how long this good attitude has existed between individual Catholic and Orthodox persons before 1965 is a mysterium tremendum not only to me, but I dare to presume to a lot of other folks. now, if we can only get the powers that be in both our traditions to get over themselves, I think we'll be on our way.
Much Love,
Jonn

THE ROMAN MARTYROLOGY

The Twenty-Fifth Day of September

1. In the town of Emmaus, the birthday of blessed Cleophas, a disciple of Christ, who is said to have been slain by the Jews for his confession in the same house wherein he had made supper for the Lord, and is buried there in glorious memory.
2. At Amiens in France, blessed Firminus, Bishop, who obtained martyrdom in Diocletian's persecution, under the governor Rictiovarus, by being beheaded after many torments.
3. On the same day, on the Claudian Way, St. Herculanus, soldier and Martyr, who was converted to Christ by the miracles at the passion of blessed Alexander, Bishop, and, under the Emperor Antoninus, was for his confession of the faith, slain with the sword after many torments.
4. At Damascus, the holy martyrs Paul and Tatta his wife, and their sons Sabinian, Maximus, Rufus and Eugene, who, accused of professing the Christian religion, were tortured by stripes and other punishments, and in torment gave up their souls to God.
5. In Asia, the passion of SS. Bardomian, Eucarpus and twenty-six other martyrs.
6. At Lyons in France, the death of St. Lupus, Bishop, once an anchorite.
7. At Auxerre, St. Anacharius, Bishop and Confessor.
8. At Blois in France, St. Solemnius, Bishop of Chartres, famous for miracles.
9. On the same day, St. Principius of Soissons, Bishop, brother of blessed Bishop Remi.
10. At Anagni, the holy virgins Aurelia and Neomisia.

And elsewhere many other holy martyrs, confessors and holy virgins. Thanks be to God.

I dont see any St Sergius in the above text for the 25 Sept. However, it is permissable to to have masses said for the dead who were not Catholics.

I think a few who have commented here have forgotten that the Catholic church has been sending high level delgations to represent the Church at some Orthodox Canonisations, including the Russian Royal Martyrs. The Orthodox calendar was approved by the Holy See in the time of Metropolitan Andrew of thrice blessed memory.

Hello Pavel,

May I ask where you found that version of the Martyrology? Was it online? The online versions are incomplete.

I consulted the official Martyrologium Romanum, published by the Holy See, at a Roman Catholic seminary. It is published in Latin. Below is an image of the cover:
[Linked Image]
That's where you'll find Saint Sergius. If I can, I'll scan the page and post it here.

God bless,

griego

I think a few who have commented here have forgotten that the Catholic church has been sending high level delgations to represent the Church at some Orthodox Canonisations, including the Russian Royal Martyrs.

Hello again Pavel,

Do you know who represented the Catholic delegation at the glorification of the Romanovs?
I'd be interested to know.

The Orthodox calendar was approved by the Holy See in the time of Metropolitan Andrew of thrice blessed memory.

Yes, Alex (aka Orthodox Catholic) has mentioned that before, but he also said that Rome removed those Orthodox saints from the calendar who were "anti-Roman" in reputation.





Yes,

The following paragraph can be found on the OCA Midwest Diocese website [midwestdiocese.org] in which Fr. Alexis attacks Saint Josaphat and the Catholic Church:

Saint Alexis made the 1,200 mile trip from Minneapolis to Wilkes-Barre on December 3, 1892. He was led to the parish house which was filled with parishioners to whom he again explained what it meant to enter the Orthodox Church. The people were satisfied with all of that, but especially, with the prospect of finally having a bishop. The following day, a Sunday, the church was filled. St. Alexis gave a sermon which lasted for more than an hour and a half. He covered the history of the Unia including its origins, how it was enforced - particularly referencing one of its greatest enforcers, the supposed �Hieromartyr-Saint� Josaphat Kuntzevich, whom St. Alexis harshly but accurately referred to as a �jerk and villain ,� - papal supremacy which the Saint identified as �a human invention;� how the Latin Church spoiled the Nicene Creed (i.e., by altering it to read that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son [contrast John 15:26]); Rome�s peculiar teaching of immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary; how �indulgences� are false and were invented to raise money, etc., and how all of these issues are opposed to Christ�s teaching and the patristic understanding of the Church.

Does anyone know where I can get the complete text of this homily?

As one who has devotion to Saint Josaphat, the above paragraph only reinforces why I do not regard Fr. Alexis as a saint. How can I regard as a saint one who criticizes Saint Josaphat, who gave his life for union between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

It puzzles me that there are Eastern Catholics who have a devotion to Fr. Alexis and yet believe the false accusations against Saint Josaphat.

To me, it makes no sense.

How does one reconcile this? How does a Byzantine Catholic venerate an Orthodox saint who attacks the union that brought about the Byzantine Catholic Church?

I am asking these questions to understand this position, not to provoke argument. Please believe that.

Your explanations will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

God bless you.

griego

We have had information on St Josaphat before here that said he was as bad as the opposition when it came to using force etc on the people who resisted the 'union'

In Demetrius Wysochansky's book, St. Josaphat Kuntsevych, Apostle of Church Unity-the most thoroughly researched book on Saint Josaphat's life in English-, he provides English translations of Saint Josaphat's letter correspondence with Leo Sapiah, chancellor of Lithuania, in which he denies absolutely that he had ever used force against Orthodox Christians.
The book provides testimonies of Orthodox Christians during Saint Josaphat's canonization process in which they admit they fabricated lies about Saint Josaphat as well as other Orthodox Christians who testified to his holiness.

It should also be pointed out that Leo Sapiah severely punished those who murdered Saint Josaphat.

It's worth reading.

I have the latest edition of the Martyrologium Romanum (2004) in my hands as I write this. On page 536, Saint Sergius is ninth of eleven saints listed for September 25th.

Here is his entry in Latin (minus the accents):

In monasterio Sanctissimae Trinitatis in Mosquensi Russiae regione, sancti Sergii de Radonez, qui, primum in silvis asperis eremita, dein vitam coenobiticam coluit et hegumenus electus propagavit, vir mitis, consiliarius principum et consolator fidelium.

I only know of one online Martyrology, that at Breviary.net. It is an excellent resource, being in Latin and English, but it is preconciliar and has not been updated with the postconciliar Calendar changes or any of the many canonisations/glorifications since that time. I just wish the new Martyrology was available in translation.

St. Sergius-
There is a very nice listing of St. Sergius in the Dictionary of Saints, by John Delaney.
It does not list an actual Feast day, but does mentioned that he died on Sept, 25,1392. It is very interesting, and says "he was born near Rostov, of a noble Russian Family, and christened Bartholomew"-I don't have a scanner, and do not type very well, otherwise I would post the whole story.

And in this official teaching of the Catholic Church in the document posted above you will notice if you read it that the filioque is omitted from the Nicene Creed.

Just to add a little more input to this thread.

There are several feastdays of non-baptized christians celebrated on the liturgical calendars of both the Latin Church and the Eastern Churches.

Joe Prokopchak
Byzantine Bad Boy

Dear griego catolico,

You said:


I would suggest you try reading the Balamand document.

God bless,
Peter.