www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Theotokos, Mother of God, Bohorodice

I have a question about the new useage of the Greek term Theotokos in our new English translation of our liturgy. I understand that our OCA friends use this in their English translation.

I have also noticed that some of our priests now refer to Mary exclusively as "Theotokos" in sermons, discussions, etc.

Could someone explain why the term "Mother of God" was found to be lacking and replaced? I am puzzled why our People's term "Bohorodice" or even our Russian cousins term Bogamateri was not used.

Thank you

David

Very good question. Personally, I prefer "Mother of God". It is a warmer term --and near and dear to my heart.

Where "Bohorodice" means "Mother of God",
"Theotokos" is literally �birth-giver of God�; the main title of the Ever-virgin Mary, defined at the Council of Ephesus in 431.

I cannot answer why, in Greek, the two different terminologies were used.

The term "Mother of God" is not wanting, and it is certainly used. But it is not an adequate translation of "Theotokos". For a simple example, check an accurate translation of the hymn to All-Holy Virgin sung during the Anaphora of the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom - both terms appear.

Icons are often inscribed with the Greek abbreviation for "Mother of God" if she appears in the Icon.

As for why not use Bohoroditsa - an obvious result would be that parishes of Slav origin would use that, parishes of Romanian origin would use Nascatoare de Dumnezeu, parishes of Arabic background would use Walidatil-il-lah, and so forth - all while serving the Divine Liturgy in English! We can take in a modest number of Greek words. We cannot invent Ruthenian-English, Ukrainian-English, Russian-English, Albanian-English, Arabo-English and who knows what else.

Does anyone, for instance, wish to be invited to "sing the Biwajib in the grave hlas?"

Fr. Serge

I would like to thank everyone for their quick replies. I do understand that Theotokos is not the meaning of Mother of God and that we have other non slavic churches in the our wonderful Byzantine heritage.

The question remains why this greek word in an official English translation. Seems out of place to me. Continue to be curious as to the reason.

Bogarodice literally translates as Birther or Birth Giver of God. Mother of God would be Bozhe Materi. I think that the reasoning is semantical, We have all heard Christ refered to as The Word or Logos, but when was the last time you heard the term Slovo used? Theologically, I can see no error with either Birthgiver of God or Theotokos. Theotokos does roll off the tongue easier though!

Alexandr

I have a very limited knowledge of Greek (so take this with a grain of salt). Theotokos is a word, as fas I know, that can't be fully translated (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong!), so the attempt really isn't made. There are phrases in English that kind say what Theotokos says but it isn't close enough to translate word by word.

I think that's it, now could some expert please tell me whether my theory's on track or not?

Nathan - your theory is quite correct. "Birth-Giver of God" doesn't do it. Besides,that expression isn't really English either.

Fr. Serge

We use Greek words in our faith in many instances - some of these off the top of my head would be Alleluia, Jesus, and Christ.

Personally, I am partial to that great Aramaic word we use all the time � Amen.


~Isaac

If we're going to use "Theotokos", "Alleluia", and "Amen", what's wrong with "Holy, holy, holy, Lord of Sabaoth "?

Yes, and how about "Orthodox", and "Unto ages of ages, Amen!"

We are, afterall, as Fr. David pointed out, correcting the text -- why not do it up right?

JMHO, Cathy

And if "Lover of mankind" is taboo or liberals, why not just use Philanthropos? It can be explained and understood, just as Theotokos and Pantokrator, etc. are.

Oops! I meant: "If 'Lover of mankind' is now taboo to liberals, why not use the original term Philanthropos. This term can be easily explained and understood just as the other Greek terms: Theotokos, Pantokrator, etc."

Actually, a number of translations from the Russian Church Abroad use "man-loving God", which, I think, precisely parallels "birthgiver of God" in being precise and keeping nuances from the Greek, as well as in being awkward English.

In particular: "man-loving God" does precisely what the Vatican instruction called for the Latins to do: it preserves the reference to both individual and collective. "Lover of mankind" does NOT; it refers to a collective, and only by a further inference to each member. (I could love mankind and further its progress by killing the weak, for example.) Sadly, I also know homosexual activists who would like very much to see "man-loving" used as a standard epithet in Christian liturgy....

Suppose "Lover of mankind" were excluded, on the grounds mentioned above. What could be used as an alternative, that shows God to love both each individual human being, and the human race as a whole?

Yours in Christ,
Jeff Mierzejewski

There's always Father Michael Gelsinger's neologism: Man-Befriending God.

Fr. Serge