www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Any changes in the method of dating Pascha

Dear PrJ,

Ultimately, the Orthodox East follows the teachings of the once-united Church of Christ.

If the principle of adhering to ancient tradition is to be followed (always a good idea), then it is we who should adhere to the Pascha as determined by that tradition and not give in to the later innovations.

Alex

True. It's also nice getting Easter candy on sale.

But beware of years when Pascha falls on the same date!

Better to save up in other years for those times!

Alex

Why should anyone want to follow a calendar that, according to its reckoning, has moved and will continue to move Pascha away from the actual seasonal events that the Council of Nicea designated ?

Dn. Anthony

Why should anyone want to follow a calendar that, according to its reckoning, has moved and will continue to move Pascha away from the actual seasonal events that the Council of Nicea designated, AWAY from the source, essence, and foundation of the actual tradition?


Dn. Anthony

Yes, the need and desire for unanimity is very important. But the issue in the Quartodeciman controversy, for example, shows that more than just a choice of one well-intention and plausible approach versus another can be at stake. The importance and coincidence of Sunday in the weekly cycle � the first day of creation and eschatological eighth day -- and a particular Sunday in the yearly cycle as the sole Day of Pascha is loaded with important theological meaning and implications. The Quartodecimans had a reasonable point but it was wrong: the wrong symbol giving the wrong message.

Also, "TOGETHER" can have different interpretations. That is why I want to stress the point about Nicea's intent and the �primitive principle� that, I believe, it properly and wisely enunciates.

In today's global village, with virtually instantaneous communication, "TOGETHER" has a very chronological meaning, it means the same day. This was desired even in the 4th c. which is why the tables and approximations of the different methods -- Roman, Alexandrian etc. -- were invoked: whoever had the tables and calendar could determine the same date/day of Pascha. The presumption was that those tables and the associated calendar would keep the date stable with respect to the primitive principle, the cosmic events: the Sunday after the first full moon after the northern spring equinox, celestial events that we do not control. The problem which must have been foreseen (the equinox by the fourth century AD had already drifted from its original March 25th to March 21st) is that the presumption fails. [The Gregorian reform skipped 10 days � the additional accumulated error � in order to adjust the calendar so that the equinox occurred approximately March 21 as at the time of Nicea.]

At an even more basic level, however, "TOGETHER" can mean following the given rule. Even without tables one can make a determination - primitive and elementary -- just based on observing nature. This may not be so exact and different parts of the globe can give different results and different days (even if accurate, the actual, i.e. the astronomical full moon following the equinox can differ for different places on Earth) and yet one can say that they observe the event together since they apply the same norm. The different places may celebrate on different days but each in accord with the sequence of natural events that are the determining factor. Especially when the locations are isolated this difference is not an issue. [I believe Islamic festivals are still determined this was, by observation, as was Passover at the time of Christ. For Islam, two witnesses confirm the first sighting on the new, the crescent moon which can only be observed a day or two after the actual new moon.]

Another way we can achieve uniformity is by agreeing on a fixed date. That is being together but with a price. I think that is a very modern, utilitarian concept and very unfortunate if done. What we would lose is the resonance with nature, with the seasons, with the brute forces of the two lights that rule the day and night-- at a unique and symbolic seasonal event, at the equinox -- that come to serve us and the Lord in illuminating the observance of our Pasch. Sure we would endure anyway, but we really are then no longer existentially in sync with the ancient sequence. We would have denied the cosmos from its participation in the liturgical �Today�: we are celebrating apart from the celestial timing except when chance makes them coincide. We have then defeated the ancient rhythm equinox-full moon-Sunday, the very rhythm that takes us back to Genesis, to Exodus and the Passover, to the Passion of Christ. We may not rationalize it or realize it, but we nevertheless experience it (the resonance) - - we are doing it -- when we celebrate according to that rhythm.

This may seem far fetched to modern sensibilities. But the ancients understood the sense of proper proportions, of numbers in harmony with nature and beauty, of the symbolic that speaks a clear but subtle message. Some may shrug it off as superstition or numerology but it had a purpose. One reads for instance of the construction of the tiers of the Gothic Cathedral according to proportions corresponding to musical harmonics: the beauty of the music through its proportion being incorporated into the stone so that (as I would interpret it) the structures, just standing in silence, would still sing. And, perhaps without realizing it, we have our special, �sacred� numbers too (Anyone for proposing that Lent be 39 days?).

The important point to be made is that the Julian calendar approach has already accumulated a sufficient error that it no longer can be considered as following the stated sequence. And its error will continue to increase. It is said to be traditional but if so it is in a very misguided sense: giving greater weight to a secondary standard - the Julian calendar and ancient Alexandrian tables � then the primary standard given by Nicea. It is the standard stated by Nicea that gives us the proper rhythm, and that rhythm is severely compromised if not yet entirely lost, in following the Julian dating. If we are willing to give up that rhythm and harmony and let the biblically denoted northern-hemisphere spring feasts of Passover and the Resurrection move to the summer and beyond, move away from the equinox, the given point of reference, then there is no problem with the Julian calendar. But then why not just choose a fixed date? With the Julian calendar one has already discarded the timing of the equinox (it�s presently 13 days later on the Julian calendar than actual), so why not give up the occurrence of a full moon too.

Whatever the solution, let�s know what may be lost and what it is we must retain.

I�ve tried to make the case for the need to conform to the equinox-full moon-Sunday standard with sufficient accuracy that the dating truly corresponds to the actual occurrence of the equinox, that is, it corresponds to the physical reality of the astronomical event. The method proposed at Aleppo achieves this with scientific accuracy; the method of the Gregorian calendar achieves this with sufficient accuracy to conform to the approximations envisioned by the Council of Nicea, and it is stable; the Julian calendar predictions are sometimes a month off and its error in denoting the equinox and the Paschal full moon will continue to increase.

Or we can scrap the Nicean standard and just fix the date.

Which is the proper choice so that we can celebrate Pascha together?

Dn. Anthony

As Saint John Chrysostom put it, the passion for changing the calendar is childish. By the way, it would still not produce a "united celebration", since we all live in different time zones (and do not forget the International Date Line). Those of us who adhere to the Julian Calendar have made it abundantly clear that we have had our fill and then some of demands, proposals, requests, importunings, call them what you will, that we adopt the Gregorian Paschalia. Forget it.

But just to offer you at least a drop of consolation: remember, please, that the original calendar controversy was on the question of whether we should invariably celebrate Pascha on Sunday, or on a specific date (of the Jewish Calendar, incidentally), regardless of the day of the week. So far, at least, we have not been faced with a resurrection of this one from any of the historic Churches. We all agree that Pascha is to be kept on Sunday (the Seventh-Day Adventists may also do as they please).

Whoever it is who is proposing to come to Dublin, please be sure that you are most welcome. You will be particularly welcome should you care to come for Holy Pascha (14/27 April this year).

There is no way to win this wager, but there is also no way to lose it. If, per impossibile, all of the Christian East were to agree to accept the Gregorian Paschalia, the next demand would be that we accept somebody's "common lectionary" - after all, surely we should all read the same Bible passages on the same day?

Fr. Serge

Bravo, Fr Serge!

Fr David

I guess one can always make the argument of the spirit or letter of the law.

I stand by the Julian Calendar (the calendar of the church of Nicaea) as the appropriate one for the church to use.

Father,

I'm sure your aware that the majority of Eastern Christians and also the majority of Greek Catholics will be celebrating together on the Julian Calendar. It is a shame that so many in the Western Hemisphere throughout the years have decided to abandon practicing together with their Greek Catholic brethren.

Monomakh

Yes, it is strange that the Prjashev and Kosice Eparchies have changed to the Western Paschalion and Gregorian Calendar, while Uzhorod-Mukachevo Eparchy is still on the Julian Calendar and the Eastern Paschalion.

Ung

Or as an Orthodox acquaintance said to me, with a wink of the eye, We must use the Julian Calendar because, after all, it was given to us by that great Orthodox saint, Julius Caesar.

I will have a Ceasar salad this Pascha.

What was the issue then? A reference would be helpful.


Actually, I was thinking about the International Date Line just the other day. But I do not understand the point: you seem to be requiring that the sun must rise uniformly and simultaneously on all parts of the earth at once in order to satisfactorily 'produce a "united celebration"'.


Since what I'm trying to do, i.e. point out the facts so informed conclusions can be reached, is not in the "we have had our fill" list I'll continue to do so as best I can.


Remembered, noted, and discussed: see "Quartodeciman controversy" my post #278407 above. What's the point?


Regarding "kept on Sunday" I have noted this quite a number of times in my previous posts. Again, what's the point.


I think you're not reading my posts with enough care. The "Whoever" is my hypothetical Martian and he's not proposing to come to Dublin, he lives there. He appreciates the welcome.



He was at first confused then amused by the need for the 14/27 designation. And he is astounded that your Holy Pascha is April 27 rather than March 23 as he determined it should be based on the directives of Nicea.



Really, all that ...'"common lectionary"'..."same Bible passages on the same day"? I've presented a number of facts; it would be good if they were addressed.

Dn. Anthony

Taking this as approval for what Fr. Serge wrote, I look forward to your comments on my response.

Dn. Anthony