www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Tabernacles

A goodly while back there was , if I remember correctly , a thread about tabernacles.

Needless to say I can't find it on the search facility

Yes , before anyone wonders why I am looking for it - I do have a good reason , thanks to something I saw very recently.

Now the real topic is

Dove Tabernacles

What is known about them - and why were they used instead of the ones we seem to use now - both East and West [ though I will admit the styles are usually very very different ], and why did we stop using them ?

The Byzantine Catholic Seminary has a Dove Tabernacle as does St. Athansius Greek Catholic Church in Rome, and St.Demetrius Ukrainian Catholic Church Toronto, and a few others.

OK - so that's where some are

BUT

why were they used ?

and why has the 'design' changed now ?

OH - and were they ever used in the West ?

OLS,

Perhaps mistakenly, I somehow thought that the The Dove-Tablernacle was a traditional Greek Christian "practice", for want of a better term.

I know that they have been used in the West, but to do so requires special permission (from the Pope?), because of the danger that someone could "steal" the tabernacle with the Sacred Species. The permission relates to a western canon law requirement that the tabernacle be "secured". Usually, the petitioner needs to show how profanation will be guarded against. A non-public oratory, or an oratory where there will always be someone present, is the usual requirement, I think. In other words, the architectural setting should make it very unlikely that profanation can occur.

Best,
Michael

The first known documented account of Eucharistic reservation:

Saint Basil, d. 379, refers to the dove-shaped vessel:

�Basil, having called upon a goldsmith, asked him to make a dove of pure gold in which he placed a portion of the body of Christ. He suspended the dove over the holy table as a figure of the sacred dove that appeared at the Jordan over the Lord during his baptism"

Life of Saint Basil, attributed to Amphilochius of Iconium, d. after 394.

they were most certainly used in the west - hanging pyxes were the normal method of reservation in the british isles before the import of the continental-style tabernacles. usually the eucharistic dove was suspended from the ceiling of the sanctuary, raised and lowered by a system of pulleys, and covered with a sort of canopy and veil of thin gauze.

So, it's just a tabernacle in the shape of a dove?

And, why would that be any easier to "steal", as Michael suggests, than a regular tabernacle? I'm missing something here.

Any links to some pic?

Xpy

Go to the gallery Dove Tabernacle

They are generally refered to as a "hanging pyx" in the Western Church. I know that they were used extensively in the British Isles before the so-called Protestant "Reformation". They were revived again in England during the late 19th and early 20th centuries by the Anglo-Catholics. Eamon Duffy's famous work The Stripping of the Altars [amazon.com] has some information about them.

As well, here are two photos of a hanging pyx (at St. Mary's, Dennington in England) that I found:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Notice the veil covering it and the sanctuary lamp in front of it.

Cool, so our word pyxie (the spirits) are based off of some Old Old English word meaning dove?

Here is the link to the earlier thread about dove tablernacles.

If anyone knows of a church goods supplier who still makes/has these tabernacles I am possibly still interested for one in our parish.

Fr. Bo

Is it always covered?

I have never seen them covered at St. Demetrius Church near Toronto, ON, nor at Mt. Tabor Monastery near Redwood Valley, CA

Fr. Bo

Not sure, but that would be hilarious if it were true.


I suppose it depends on the size and shape. The only one I have ever seen in person was at the chapel of St. Anna's Home for Aged Women, run by the Anglican All Saints Sisters of the Poor [freepages.religions.rootsweb.com] here in Philadelphia. The one in that chapel is also covered. I have yet to see the main All Saints Convent [rafandsioux.com] down in Maryland.

While he was Pastor of Saint George's Melkite Greek-Catholic Church, Birmingham, Alabama, Archbishop (then Archimandrite) Joseph (Raya) installed a splendid tabernacle in the form of the hanging dove in that church. I trust that it is still there.

Another was made for the Russian Greek-Catholic chapel at the Fatima Shrine in Portugal.

As a young priest, I myself put one in the church in my first parish.

Fr. Serge