www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam Our Lord God the Pope?

I found an anti-catholic site [biblelightinfo.com](probably SDA) that says the pope claims to be lord/God in some writings.
How do we Catholics response to these claims?

" . . . dominum nostrum papam . . ."

" . . . our lord the pope . . . " (translation)

"Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam"

Wenura Ravindu,

Welcome to the forum. We hope your time with us is spiritually beneficial.

I read Latin and the insertion of "God" in the text is dishonest. The original text and the parts taken out to be more clear in current script DO NOT insert the word "God" or "god" at all. This is just an anti-Catholic smear tactic used by some Evangelical Christians.

In the time that this text was written, it would have been normal to use the term "Lord" or "lord" for a bishop in Western practice. In fact, there is a current Anglican usage where a bishop in the English Church is addressed--when speaking to him/her personally--as "My Lord, Bishop."

In the text cited, a reference is made to "Our Lord (the) Pope." It is a matter of ecclesial good manners related to the time period.

Bob
Moderator

Additional comment: I went back to the site and looked at the three citations. The first two are in black print on white paper and appear to be legitimate sources. They also confirm my explanation above. The third is a red background. It appears to me to be some sort of forgery by someone not adept at the Latin language. The site explanation claims that the references to the Pope are abbreviated, but I don't buy it.

Thank you for having me in here and for the explanation

I would go with, "hysterical laughter."

The original manuscript Vat.lat.1397 at the vatican library from the 14th century contains all words including "Dominum Deum nostrum papam" and the corrected roman editions in 1582 and 1584 also contain the gloss with full wording as well.

What page? Manuscript - Vat.lat.1397 [digi.vatlib.it]

Folio 166 V, upper left column, 6th line down from the top.

I found it interesting that, among other links available on a certain page of the site (they are links to Catholic sites), there are two addresses to very interesting pages, Catholic Biblical Apologetics and Biblical Evidence For Catholicism.

May Our Lady, Mother of Christian Unity, help us in the face of criticism and persecution.

I do not see a gloss in 1397 just the wording of the text itself.

I see it but what do you see? Please transcribe the line in question? It would be helpful to give a simple transcription and then also with the sigla expanded.

The line reads "Credere autem dominum Deum nostrum papam conditorem dictae dectretalis et istius, sic non potuisse statuere prout statuit, haereticum censeretur." translates to "But to believe that our Lord God the Pope, the establisher of said decretal, and of this, could not decree, as he did decree, should be accounted heretical."

And yeah, that is all gloss off to the side apart from the body on the inside columns.... But it is commentary reflected in the body of canon law elsewhere specifically Distinctio 96 Chapter "Satis Evidenter" Where we read:

"Satis evidenter ostenditur, a saeculari potestate nec ligari prorsus nec solvi posse Pontificem; quem constat a pio principe Constantino (quod longe superius memoravimus) Deum appellatum: nec posse Deum ab hominibus judicari manifestum est.

"It is evidently enough shown that the Pontiff, whom it is clear was called God by the pious Prince Constantine (which we have related above), cannot be bound nor loosed by the secular power: and it is manifest that God cannot be judged by men."

Same as what Lucius Ferraris taught in his prompt biblioteca canonica where he said
"As to papal authority, the Pope is as it were God on earth, Sole sovereign of all the faithful of Christ, chief king of kings, having a plentitude of unbroken power, entrusted by the omnipotent God to govern the earthly and heavenly kingdoms"

"The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. The Pope alone is called most holy…Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of hell."

Or Corneliio Musso who said "O Rome, to whom shall we go for divine counsel, unless you those persons to whose trust the dispensation of the divine mysteries has been committed? We are therefore, to hear him (the pope) who is to us God, in things that concern God, as God himself!"

Or Archbishop Christopher Marcellus "Take care so that the sheepfold may be one, it is now divided into parts. Take care at last, that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou has given us. For thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician, thou art our governer, thou art our husband man, thou art finally another God on earth."

There were many others as well....I've tracked all of the original documents and quotes down on google books and elsewhere....they are all there and verifieid.

The misquotes and false translations are from anti-papal collection titled The Catholic Faith or Doctrines of the Church of Rome Contrary to Scripture and the Teaching of the Primitive Church by John Harvery Treat, Esq, published by the brotherhood founded by Anglican bishop Edward Randolph Welles of Milwaukee, WI in 1888:
https://anglicanhistory.org/usa/erwelles/