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Dec 29th, 2019
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I was under the impression, based on statements by Archbishop Basil, Prof. Thompson and numerous others, that the promulgation of the text in the RDL applies only to "English" liturgies. And that there has been no banning of Church Slavonic. As much as I hope that you are correct, this wording here contradicts your impression. �On and after the feast of the Holy and Pre-eminent apostles Peter and Paul, June 29, 2007, this text and its attendant music will be the sole liturgical text for the celebration of the Divine Liturgies of our Holy Fathers John Chrysostom and Basil the Great." Monomakh
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I agree. If the promulgation really means that this music, and only this music may be used, I'll turn in my baton. I'm glad to use the new music, but no choir is going to be satisfied with foregoing Bortniansky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Kedroff, etc.
Jeff, since you are in the know, could you just pick up the phone and ask? If, for example, my choir were going to sing a liturgy, using the new music (as we have been doing), but choosing to sing the Kedroff Our Father, would we have to write a letter to Bishop Basil first? Would I need to write a separate letter for each item in the repertoire? Would I need to send him a copy of the choir book?
I don't think I could be bothered with all that. I'd rather quit. Dumb question time: It seems to me that the priests from the dioceses have been called together to discuss the RDL...finally. Why weren't these kinds of questions sent along to those meetings? Why does Jeff have to make the call? Mary
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*shrug* I'd be happy to find out what I can!
Jeff
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*shrug* I'd be happy to find out what I can!
Jeff Nice guy. See. I don't always disagree with you. Mary
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I'm a choir director at a Byzantine Catholic church. The RDL now poses a very real problem for me. I have
tons of music in English, but the RDL is copyrigthed. I can't legally change my music to match the new texts.
As I see it, I have three alternatives:
1. Continue using the current music, text won't match.
2. Sing everything in Church Slavonic.
3. Disband the choir.
I will not risk infringing on copyright; don't need to be made an "example of" for such a horrible translation.
I will not use 4-part music published by the MCI as most people in the parish are comfortable with what we currently have. Does anyone have any other PRACTICAL suggestions?
John Scotus My suggestion: Talk with your pastor on the issue. He should have the final say. My opinion: If the people like the settings you've composed or arranged by yourself for use in your parish or if you use famous settings from major composers, then stick with your arrangement. I think that saying you're forced to disband the parish choir and completely forgo choral music because of a directive is a rigorist interpretation of the document's purpose. If someone objects, ask them for alternatives (i.e. "give me music or lift the copyright"). Otherwise, ask him/her to come up IN PERSON to the choir and ask it to disband. I frankly can't imagine that any bishop or chancery official would disband a parish choir and forgo choral music. But if they do, the burden should be on them to do it and explain why, not on you. Again, only my opinion. Markos [whose parish mixes and mashes texts from all over the place]
Last edited by MarkosC; 05/10/07 07:43 PM.
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I wish we would just go back to Slavonic, I would love that!
Last edited by lanceg; 05/10/07 08:22 PM.
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Pravada!
Xpucmoc Bockpece!
Ungcsertezs (StaroSlavans'kohophile)
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Christ is risen!
1. The language given in the "Divine Liturgies" book is not IN ANY WAY intended to restrict the use of Church Slavonic (or Hungarian or Spanish) in the churches of the Byzantine Catholic Church sui juris, USA.
2. The restriction on the music applies to liturgies sung in plainchant (prostopinije) IN ENGLISH and is not designed to restrict or prohibit the use of choral music (either settings of the prostopinije or the works of other composers) in the churches of the Byzantine Catholic Church sui juris, USA.
I am posting this as the director of the Metropolitan Cantor Institute of the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh after having consulted with Metropolitan Basil. Anyone trying to maintain otherwise is not accurately reflecting the position of the Byzantine Catholic Church sui juris, USA.
As far as the reconciliation of the text of choral settings of the Divine Liturgy with the official English text, I have not recevied any directives. I will ask the Metropolitan and see what his feelings on the subject are.
Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA
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Thank you! I'm glad to hear it.
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Christ is risen!
1. The language given in the "Divine Liturgies" book is not IN ANY WAY intended to restrict the use of Church Slavonic (or Hungarian or Spanish) in the churches of the Byzantine Catholic Church sui juris, USA.
2. The restriction on the music applies to liturgies sung in plainchant (prostopinije) IN ENGLISH and is not designed to restrict or prohibit the use of choral music (either settings of the prostopinije or the works of other composers) in the churches of the Byzantine Catholic Church sui juris, USA.
I am posting this as the director of the Metropolitan Cantor Institute of the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh after having consulted with Metropolitan Basil. Anyone trying to maintain otherwise is not accurately reflecting the position of the Byzantine Catholic Church sui juris, USA.
As far as the reconciliation of the text of choral settings of the Divine Liturgy with the official English text, I have not recevied any directives. I will ask the Metropolitan and see what his feelings on the subject are.
Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA This is very helpful Professor Thompson. While you are speaking to the Metropolitan it would be wise, I think, to show him what you have written here in public forum and suggest that an official statement be issued, since I am sure that our people will take this as the official statement. It would be unfortunate to run your public clarification here into conflict with some other action or statement from the Metropolia at a later date, don't you think? mary
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I knew I saw discussions on this before...I recently had the opportunity to attend a BCC...when speaking with one of the cantors afterwords I mentioned I was surprised that there was no Slavonic or Hungarian at least for eternal memory...what I was told was...he was instructed "English Only!"... 
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Glory to Jesus Christ!
In general, I do not any longer post on this Forum. However, having seen Job's comment vis-a-vis the use of other languages, I need to say these two things:
(1) The post I made on 5-7-2007 is correct.
and
(2) An individual priest may make judgment calls in a given parish. It's impossible for me to know, without having consulted the pastor, what the reasons for a specific decision would be. The only thing I can say with surety is that this is NOT an eparchial or Metropolitan policy. Please try to see the distinction between the two.
A blessed feast of the Entrance of the Theotokos to all.
Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA
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Glory to Jesus Christ!
In general, I do not any longer post on this Forum. However, having seen Job's comment vis-a-vis the use of other languages, I need to say these two things:
(1) The post I made on 5-7-2007 is correct.
and
(2) An individual priest may make judgment calls in a given parish. It's impossible for me to know, without having consulted the pastor, what the reasons for a specific decision would be. The only thing I can say with surety is that this is NOT an eparchial or Metropolitan policy. Please try to see the distinction between the two.
A blessed feast of the Entrance of the Theotokos to all.
Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA Thank you for a reply...and blessed feast day!!! 1. I believe you mean your post of 5-11 2. Knowing the situation the use of a little Slavonic and or Hungarian would have been extremely appropriate given the circumstance. My understanding is the priest who wanted "english only" is definitely one in a position of authority in the eparchy of Passaic...I have read on this forum several posters who stated what I did and I also "chalked it off" until I experienced it...it reminds me of the "red book" and how it was never fully implemented (in most parishes)...I have also seen on this forum several people state that the "red book" was there priests just didn't utilize it fully...when it is very well known that things like teplota were very well known "not to be used"...
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Glory to Jesus Christ!
In general, I do not any longer post on this Forum. However, having seen Job's comment vis-a-vis the use of other languages, I need to say these two things:
(1) The post I made on 5-7-2007 is correct.
and
(2) An individual priest may make judgment calls in a given parish. It's impossible for me to know, without having consulted the pastor, what the reasons for a specific decision would be. The only thing I can say with surety is that this is NOT an eparchial or Metropolitan policy. Please try to see the distinction between the two.
A blessed feast of the Entrance of the Theotokos to all.
Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA Professor Thompson, this may not be a Metropolitan policy, however two points need to be made. 1) The only place I've heard that this is not the policy of the Metropolia is from you on here. If this is true this is good news for the BCA and I thank you for sharing it. But even you would have to acquiesce to the fact that the letters from hierarchs are poorly written to put it mildly. Take for example: this text and its attendant music will be the sole liturgical text for the celebration of the Divine Liturgies of our Holy Fathers John Chrysostom and Basil the Great. and From this date forward this is the only text to be used in the churches and other places of the Byzantine Metropolitan Church Sui Juris of Pittsburgh, USA, ..... and 5. Music. Music will be a special concern. The new People�s Book contains almost all the music needed by cantors. A set of CDs, containing recordings of all the music in this book will be of inestimable help. Some cantors will be able to learn all they need directly from the materials; others will need help. The Eparchial Cantor�s Institute will meet soon to determine how best to meet this need.
6. Books.
d. Duplication of texts. Permission from the Metropolitan must be sought for all duplications of the Divine Liturgy, including printing of alternate musical settings. You seem to want to post on here that the natives in the pews are stirring this up for no apparent reason. Maybe if communication was clear then incorrect conclusions would not be drawn. If it weren't for your post I don't know how in the world anyone else would draw any other kind of conclusion. What do you think those who have only read communications from the hierarchs and haven't read what you've posted on here are thinking?! 2) The official policy may not be to suppress Slavonic, but please name for us here on the board, the last three times that a Liturgy presided over by one of the hierarchs of the BCA was conducted in Slavonic in this country(traveling to Uzhhorod for Liturgies doesn't count)? Monomakh
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Job:
Dicsős�g J�zus Krisztusnak!
Just thought you might like to know that both Slavonic and Hungarian were used on the third day. It took a little urging but, in the end, everyone agreed that it was only right and proper.
Hope you and your family are well.
In Christ,
Theophilos
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